Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

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Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Andeavor on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:20 pm

Last Saturday night, a large group of young people gathered at Bellevue, a central square in Zurich, Switzerland, to have a big party. Since there wasn't any permit for a gathering of this scale, the police deemed the party illegal and started sending out forces. As if prepared, many of the gathered youth started to set tables in front of restaurants on fire and otherwise destroyed public property, the police responded accordingly while fire fighters had trouble reaching the crowds who was sending cobblestones their way. Only a small number of people got arrested.

While all of Switzerland is divided on the legality of this action and the consequences thereof, a revenge party is already in planning via text messages.

For some videos and a followup article (in German) click here.

I know, this doesn't compare to the London riots... yet, but what really concerns me is that many youngsters are using this and other riots as an excuse to fight for their right to party. But since when is it your right to clog up a public place (without a permit), playing loud music at night and ending up destroying public property because you're told to stop and go home?

Has the youth of today lost all social decorum and respect for their environment and how delusional are they to believe they have the right to act out this way? When I was younger, we were told to behave and we did and if we wanted to have a big party, we organized it with the authorities so we could have a clean, good time.

I'd like to hear some opinions from you guys on that.

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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by bmpalmann on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:52 pm

I think there's a major problem in the west regarding how teenagers are treated, which has led to a certain amount of alienation from the rest of society and the norms that they follow. It's unfortunately the case that the youth want respect, but are unable to realise that they've got to show respect to gain the respect of others.
There are always a few troublemakers in any large group of people, and i think the police showing up was an excuse to kick off, cos the people who are feared and least respected in the world of the teenager are the police. This looks like a case of the troublemakers causing a snowball effect, and dragging innocent bi-standers into their trouble making.
Seems to be another case of the minority giving the majority a bad name Neutral


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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by OneDeadSlime on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:58 pm

Has the youth of today lost all social decorum and respect for their environment and how delusional are they to believe they have the right to act out this way? When I was younger, we were told to behave and we did and if we wanted to have a big party, we organized it with the authorities so we could have a clean, good time.

If you asked your grandmother I'm sure she'd tell you the exact same thing. But that would be referring to earlier generations.
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Arkanay on Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:42 am

I think one of the downsides of today's more liberal world is the fact that certain individuals take opportunity of that to generate trouble (on both sides of the equation, actually - Teenagers and Adults), knowing that their punishment (if they even ever get one) won't be as harsh and tough as to dissuade them from stirring things up in the first place.

I think that some respect and discipline have gotten lost throughout the last decades in a general worldwide view. There are always exceptions here and there, of course, but it just feels like we're living in a world that sometimes is afraid to put people back in their place when they deserve, or even more severe punishments when necessary. For instance, the max jail time you can get in Portugal for the time being is merely 25 years, which in my opinion is completely ridiculous. You can go around, be a butcher and a rapist, and all you'll get will be 25 years (after the case floats aimlessly in court for 7 years or something).

I know this example is different from a loud party, but if people already know that there are certain rules to follow, especially in a public place, why break them at "gunpoint" and then complain that the cops are pigs when they're merely doing their job? (Obviously, and unfortunately, there are police officers who take things too far and end up acting wrong themselves)

On the other hand, (please note that I'm not certain how the illegal party was actually dealt with) perhaps the situation could have been better handled by the ones in charge? Maybe their approach was too fierce and violent when a more subtle and diplomatic one was required instead? A few things to ponder about, I believe.
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Drew980 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:47 am

I know that everyone I know around my age group in real life, are completely drained of respect for just about everything. Its really depressing to see but its whats going down. No one ever says thank you, no one ever says please, everyone always swears in front of their parents, no one cares about other problems that don't concern themselves. Much more could be said. But from what I have seen parents just buy their children new stuff thinking they will behave. It sounds silly? Thats why we have not even 10 year olds walking around with Ipads.
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Trick on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:25 am

Not only for others, but for themselves as well.

Just now I've pretty much lost all respect for a girl who I thought was pretty decent, because of her lack of respect/discipline for herself.
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Vektrix on Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:12 am

If you need a permit to gather in large groups by law, then they have not got a leg to stand on. However, that seems like a clandestine law to have since it effectively would render illegal any peaceful spur of the moment protest over a legitimate issue.

Anyway, onto the question.

It is difficult, I think it is the Medias fault in the main - though some teenagers inevitably play up to the stereotype. So to a certain extent, small sections of that community aren't helping. I am guessing here, but I think every age group is made of a small group of idiots, the law of averages tells us this. Just for some reason teenagers behaving badly is considered newsworthy.

In the UK there is also the annual exams row. For 11 months of the year, teenagers are vilified for wearing hoodies (when it is cold for heaven's sake), stabbing people whilst recording it on their mobiles and for not being able to speak proper English. THEN, in August, these same people get A's in their exams only to be told by those with more sense that the exams were harder when they did them.

Parents should shoulder some blame too - especially those that used violence when disciplining them. I am of the opinion that smacking children as a disciplinary technique is not only wrong, but deplorable. It just teaches people that violence is acceptable as a punishment... and they then take this on into later life.

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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Andeavor on Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:26 am

Zurich isn't a big city compared to others like Berlin or London, so when about 1000 adolescent people gather on a Saturday night in a central area and not only block the way for trams to pass through while some are standing on the tram station buildings listening to loud music, you will get some media attention.

Further investigation proved the original "organizers" only wanted to demonstrate against the expensive club entry prices by having their own "illegal" parties here and there. It was the unfortunate consequence that others took over the text message organizing and brought some of their rather rebellious friends.

The original organizers are requesting immediate arrest for anyone acting out of order on the next planned illegal party next Saturday while they are planning to stay at home.

I mostly blame the parents for the misdemeanor of their children these days. Instead of disciplining them, they give them enough freedom as not to turn into the SPORE parents they had when growing up. Unfortunately, that's what is sometimes needed. Even my own mother realized that she couldn't be friends with us children until after we entered adulthood and understood what her parenting was all about. I got my manners from my father and the respect for myself and other people from my mother and I'm glad they kept me in line, though respectfully.

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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Mushroomking1 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:02 am

I should probably start out by saying, is the question rhetorical? If not, it should be. I’ve never had much belief in the goodness of humanity, and I don’t know how most of you have seen the world through the years-but as one of today’s youth, I’d say the question’s obvious enough not to be asked (without offending anyone).

To me (and most of the people my age should agree), the world’s simply always been like this. When you ask me about what happened to the peace and cooperation that Earth apparently had, I’ll tell you that there’s never been any peace and cooperation; when you tell me that the world is in a downwards spiral and something must be done to fix it, I’ll tell you that it’s always been out of control and that there’s nothing to fix. I don’t know what I missed out of, but it seems the older generations always speak of a golden age with the same air of longing-and I really get the idea that this is simply something all humans go through, just an illusion. For me, (though I’m a misanthrope and proud of it), youth have always been disobedient, the middle east has never been more than a nest of violence, bankers have always acted like banksters; CEOs have always covered up bankruptcies; the catholic church has always had dirt on its tunic; my home country has always been an oligarchy; the drug trade has always been the world’s most profitable market; Lindsay Lohan has always been known for her drinking; MTV doesn’t air music videos. You get the picture?

There’s never been any respect, or discipline, not to me. Now, I myself think I grew up in a home that exemplifies the roots of this behavior, though I wouldn’t say there are many similar homes at all. In my home, we get what we want. The world is at the disposal of those with means, means meaning money, pure and simple. In all three countries I have lived in, it isn’t intelligence valued at a young age-it’s fitting in. Idealists aren’t dreamers-they’re distracted idiots, far too willing to believe in the greater good of the human race to see the world as it is. I don’t oft voice my observations to my family or anyone I know in real life for that matter, as they wouldn’t be appreciated. But if there’s one thing that is the obvious cause of how the world exists today, it is the fact that we-or some of us-live in excess, without parental intervention, filled with mindless products like alcohol and Sativa-and the rest of us are either too old, too neutral, too politically correct, too cynical or too powerless to intervene. I’m not railing against any of this things-heck, I myself couldn’t live without some of them-but if there’s an answer to your question, the answer is yes-and the reason for that yes is our own modern era-style of despair.
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Jokie155 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:15 pm

Around here, I blame schools. Several, rather than teaching kids to avoid bad habits, give them instructions on how to be safe while using them! (By bad habits I am referring to taking illegal substances and under-age related activities). Add to the fact that health and goverment agencies are destroying the joy of childhood with propoganda about fat, cholestrol and other 'problems', these kids don't have a childhood. Combine that with parents who don't really care how much filth they say to people at random, I feel ashamed of the state of Australia.
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Didzo on Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:52 pm

HUMANITY IS DOOMED
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Re: Has discipline and respect gotten lost?

Post by Jokie155 on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:19 pm

Meh, with the Earth heading into a very unstable period of ecological disasters, the economic markets falling apart, kids having public tantrums will be a tiny part of our problems. It's going to be the adults fighting over dwindling supplies that'll cause more problems.
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