NEWS: Osama Bin Laden is dead

Hmm...

Missed the boat a little with the discussion here, but I'll put my two penny in anyway.

When I first heard this news I thought 'wow at last, thats a step in the right direction.'

Then the cynic and critic in me stepped in.

I don't disagree for a moment that he was an evil person, who deserved what he got a thousand times over, but America brought him down to bring justice to those who suffered from all his misdeeds. Justice being the operative word.

I feel it is a relief that he is dead, but not a justice. It would have been more of a justice if they had captured him and given him a fair trial of what he stood accused of. There's no doubt that he would be given the death sentance through this, but I just feel it would be a greater example of the things America is trying to stand for. But its not a perfect world.

I was also a little suspicious that they dumped his body in the water too. No proof that he is actually dead. But thats a little conspiracy theorist-ish.

I do think that there are going to be retaliations from this, like mentioned earlier he was the 'face' of Al Qaeda, a face that was pretty much given its notority by the western press ten years ago. It is by no means the end of Al Qaeda, nor its thinking, they will want to show this somehow. Tense times I think.

Red-Indigo wrote:Hmm...

Missed the boat a little with the discussion here, but I'll put my two penny in anyway.

When I first heard this news I thought 'wow at last, thats a step in the right direction.'

Then the cynic and critic in me stepped in.

I don't disagree for a moment that he was an evil person, who deserved what he got a thousand times over, but America brought him down to bring justice to those who suffered from all his misdeeds. Justice being the operative word.

I feel it is a relief that he is dead, but not a justice. It would have been more of a justice if they had captured him and given him a fair trial of what he stood accused of. There's no doubt that he would be given the death sentance through this, but I just feel it would be a greater example of the things America is trying to stand for. But its not a perfect world.

I was also a little suspicious that they dumped his body in the water too. No proof that he is actually dead. But thats a little conspiracy theorist-ish.

QFT, nicely put.

Exceuse me for not reading every post which has been made here so far, so this may have been said before...


In my opinion, this is just another one of America's own creations which got destroyed. Not really something to be very happy or proud about. No justice has been done. Justice would be punishing the people who funded him back in the late 80's and got away with it.

But I don't see that happening any time soon..

I was reading an article about Osama's will. And its actually somewhat surprising as to what he said.

Firstly and most typically, he didn't want any of his wives to remarry. Not a surprise as thats a fairly normal request in that society.

But then he went on to talk about his regret that he didn't spend more time raising his children and how he wished he could have done more with them. He asks for his children's forgiveness as he failed them as a father.

He then went onto say that he wants his kids to stay away from Al Qaeda. He wants his kids to have nothing to do with them.

While it is impossible to doubt he was a severely demented individual, he was human and did have love for someone.

The fact he wants his children to have nothing to do with Al Qaeda at the very least shows he did love his children.

LordRemington wrote:I was reading an article about Osama's will. And its actually somewhat surprising as to what he said.

Firstly and most typically, he didn't want any of his wives to remarry. Not a surprise as thats a fairly normal request in that society.

But then he went on to talk about his regret that he didn't spend more time raising his children and how he wished he could have done more with them. He asks for his children's forgiveness as he failed them as a father.

He then went onto say that he wants his kids to stay away from Al Qaeda. He wants his kids to have nothing to do with them.

While it is impossible to doubt he was a severely demented individual, he was human and did have love for someone.

The fact he wants his children to have nothing to do with Al Qaeda at the very least shows he did love his children.

While this does nothing to change my disgust of who he was, it's still a bit of a comfort to know that in the end, he at least tried to be human.

Descardion wrote:
While this does nothing to change my disgust of who he was, it's still a bit of a comfort to know that in the end, he at least tried to be human.

I think one thing should be clarified.

Most people are saying he was "evil" however I think to say that is a misinterpretation of the word "evil".

I for one do not see Bin Laden as evil. Do I believe he was dillusional? Yes. Severly misguided? Yes. Were his actions monsterous? Yes. But was he evil? in my view no. My interetation of evil is not the actions of a person, but the reasoning behind those actions.

For instance. Two men kill someone in the exact same fashion. One man, does it because he enjoys the snuffing the life out of other people. The other kills an enemy soldier on the field of battle.

Same actions, but are they both evil?

This is why I do not see Osama as an evil person. In his will he said he regretted not spending more time with his children as he was answering the call of Jihad. Osama's actions were based on the (dillusional) belief that he was doing his god's will. In his perspective he was doing a good deed.

Note I am in absolutely no way defending what he did, I am merely saying to say he was spawn of pure evil or inhuman is not quite correct.

But who knows, he may have taken some pleasure out of murder, but on paper he was doing just to appease his god.

So to me, him showing a human side maybe isn't so surprising. He may have been incredibly dillusional, but that doesn't mean he was incapable of love.

Edit: I know you didn't say anything about him being evil, It was just a thought that came to mind.

But then... Is there truly any such thing as good or evil? Hitler believed he was doing the right thing, but there is no denying that Osama wasn't even a tenth as demented as Hitler was. And yet, Hitler loved his wife and apparently admired his people. Is he suddenly not a cruel, evil man? I don't quite think so, but it makes you wonder.

I believe there is evil in the world... But accurately defining it is no easy task. You have a very strong point there, my man.

Good and evil are based on subjective observation and interpretation.

Like music and art.

Descardion wrote:But then... Is there truly any such thing as good or evil? Hitler believed he was doing the right thing, but there is no denying that Osama wasn't even a tenth as demented as Hitler was. And yet, Hitler loved his wife and apparently admired his people. Is he suddenly not a cruel, evil man? I don't quite think so, but it makes you wonder.

I believe there is evil in the world... But accurately defining it is no easy task. You have a very strong point there, my man.

Hitler was self motivated by his own personal hatred of the jew. Osama was motivated by what he believed his god wanted him to do, but for all we know he could have also taken great personal satisfaction in watching people die as well so he could have been an evil guy

Again I do believe the world is better off without Osama, but it is not easy to label him as evil. I agree with you though, there can be somewhat greyish areas.

I agree with WP, its your perception of what is good or evil, but thats the reason why I am hesitant to call him evil, there are no true evils, only what we perceive as evil.. I think no matter how "evil" a person's action are, they always have some level of humanity, even if that humanity is only directed at their family. I don't think there are many if any, who have truly pitch black souls, but that doesn't mean everyone can achieve redemption of course.